These are suggestions on how to change the characters already in place to make things more interesting, and the characters more unique. I will add more as I think of them.
Mario:
Triple Jump: If you run at full speed, and jump three times in a row, jumping as soon as you touch the ground, you go farther and higher with your jumps. You must stay at full speed.
Nuclear Stomp: In Fire Flower mode, you can hold down while jumping to cover mario's legs in fire and do much damage to the next enemy stomped. The difference between this and a stomp is that an enemy killed by this doesn't vault you into the air.
Raccoon Great Spin: Taking a page out of Zelda, if you hold the attack button, mario should freeze in place for a second and then if you release the button, a raccoon spin attack is activated with longer range.
Spinning Bro.: When in hammer/boomerang suit, run to full speed and then press down. You should duck into the shell and kill any enemies killed by a shell. When you release the run button, you come out of the shell.
Luigi:
Hurricane Ball: In Fire Flower Mode, you may hold the fireball button and you become stationary and charge. Once it is finished charging, it automatically sends out a slow moving, damaging ball of lightning that does much damage.
Spinning Bro.: When in hammer/boomerang suit, run to full speed and then press down. You should duck into the shell and kill any enemies killed by a shell. When you release the run button, you come out of the shell.
Tails:
Tails's Airstrike: See the other topic in this forum.
'Prow'ess: There are certain screws in some levels. If you have any other character besides Tails, you can do nothing with it. But if you are Tails, duck on top of it to go into a work animation in which you can get hit, and you screw it in. If you are hit, you need to start over. After you screw it in, a wall on the level disappears, or a pipe suddenly becomes active. This offers the ability to have separate paths for Tails and in the World 0 level, Miasma City.
Arthur:
High Winds: Arthur can withstand high winds blowing out of certain pipes if he is wearing his armor. Other characters are just pushed back. This offers the ability to have separate paths for Arthur and in the World 0 level, Miasma City.
Full Version: Character Upgrades
Do all characters need supermoves in all forms?
For one, charging up the fire flower was already decided. Two, the spinning shell was first introduced in NSMB and it is a double edged sword, it is powerful, yet it makes you fast and reckless. You can't change direction unless you release the run button. And for three, the raccoon spin attack doesn't do any extra damage, it is just a longer range. Four, the nuclear stomp can't hurt enemies that aren't killed by stomps. If you try to N. Stomp a spiny, you get hurt. The other things are not super attacks.
Those are some nice ideas. I have a couple character-specific moves of my own; lemme know what you think:
Mario: Wall Slide/Wall Kick
If Mario collides with a wall while running, he will "stick" to it and then start sliding down it slowly. Failing to hold direction the wall is in relation to Mario (Left if the wall's to the left of Mario, and Right if it's on the right) will end the slide. Pressing Jump will make Mario kick off the wall.
Luigi: Super Jump
Taking a page from Super Paper Mario (which in turn took that page from SMB2), if Luigi crouches until he is glowing (or whatever) and the player presses Jump, he will jump IMMENSELY high. He can kill enemies and destroy breakable blocks in the first half or so of the way up. Once he starts to really slow down, it will be treated like a regular jump.
Sonic: Light Dash
Is there a path of coins/rings/equivalent objects you REALLY need to follow after? Just press Run near it and watch Sonic take off. (Afterimages would be lovely, but...)
Tails: Tail Whip
As Tails always has his namesakes around, he may use them in a similar fashion to Mario's raccoon tails by pressing the Attack button. He WILL stop dead without the Raccoon Leaf or Tanooki Suit, however.
Arthur: Heavy
Like ShardMan suggested, all that armor could add up to a lot of weight if you think about it. Therefore, Arthur would be able to ignore wind/water currents to go places even Sonic can't go.
I don't know what Samus could have, and I'm kind of clueless on Roll entirely (not a huge Megaman fan). If anyone can think of something for them, let me know!
Mario: Wall Slide/Wall Kick
If Mario collides with a wall while running, he will "stick" to it and then start sliding down it slowly. Failing to hold direction the wall is in relation to Mario (Left if the wall's to the left of Mario, and Right if it's on the right) will end the slide. Pressing Jump will make Mario kick off the wall.
Luigi: Super Jump
Taking a page from Super Paper Mario (which in turn took that page from SMB2), if Luigi crouches until he is glowing (or whatever) and the player presses Jump, he will jump IMMENSELY high. He can kill enemies and destroy breakable blocks in the first half or so of the way up. Once he starts to really slow down, it will be treated like a regular jump.
Sonic: Light Dash
Is there a path of coins/rings/equivalent objects you REALLY need to follow after? Just press Run near it and watch Sonic take off. (Afterimages would be lovely, but...)
Tails: Tail Whip
As Tails always has his namesakes around, he may use them in a similar fashion to Mario's raccoon tails by pressing the Attack button. He WILL stop dead without the Raccoon Leaf or Tanooki Suit, however.
Arthur: Heavy
Like ShardMan suggested, all that armor could add up to a lot of weight if you think about it. Therefore, Arthur would be able to ignore wind/water currents to go places even Sonic can't go.
I don't know what Samus could have, and I'm kind of clueless on Roll entirely (not a huge Megaman fan). If anyone can think of something for them, let me know!
Both Kirby and Wario's are standard parts of their moves in MKF.
| QUOTE (The Qu @ Dec 9 2008, 11:52 PM) |
| Both Kirby and Wario's are standard parts of their moves in MKF. |
...I see. DELETEDEDEDED!
I like the powers that result in character only paths, and the different fire flower abilities for Mario and Luigi. And maybe for the Spinning Bros ability Luigi could have a faster (harder to control) slide, but have the ability to jump in that form.
I couple of the abilities proposed are not quite as good though. The only one I don't really like with Shard's is the Mario Triple Jump I have to say would not be good. It could make some things easily skipable if you can jump high enough. Also, run sections could be harder because of the added height. Plus I know he has to be at full speed, but I think Luigi should be the one with the jumping prowess.
Nubuh 214's for Mario, Luigi, and Sonic all seem bad. IIRC, Wall Kick was already shot down for Samus as being to potentially broken, which leads into the fact the Luigi's super jump seems like it would also be broken, in that you could skip chunks of levels with a jump that big. And really I can't see the Light Dash getting much practical use. The one thing I could think of for that is it could be used for his character only path (like a string of coins taking Sonic to higher ground).
I couple of the abilities proposed are not quite as good though. The only one I don't really like with Shard's is the Mario Triple Jump I have to say would not be good. It could make some things easily skipable if you can jump high enough. Also, run sections could be harder because of the added height. Plus I know he has to be at full speed, but I think Luigi should be the one with the jumping prowess.
Nubuh 214's for Mario, Luigi, and Sonic all seem bad. IIRC, Wall Kick was already shot down for Samus as being to potentially broken, which leads into the fact the Luigi's super jump seems like it would also be broken, in that you could skip chunks of levels with a jump that big. And really I can't see the Light Dash getting much practical use. The one thing I could think of for that is it could be used for his character only path (like a string of coins taking Sonic to higher ground).
I say no, it's kinda cheapish.
| QUOTE (Numbuh 214 @ Dec 9 2008, 11:08 PM) |
| Those are some nice ideas. I have a couple character-specific moves of my own; lemme know what you think Sonic: Light Dash Is there a path of coins/rings/equivalent objects you REALLY need to follow after? Just press Run near it and watch Sonic take off. (Afterimages would be lovely, but...) |
This has to be in the game and how about the light speed attack?
QUOTE (tcox @ Dec 10 2008, 11:14 AM)
| QUOTE (Numbuh 214 @ Dec 9 2008, 11:08 PM) |
| Those are some nice ideas. I have a couple character-specific moves of my own; lemme know what you think Sonic: Light Dash Is there a path of coins/rings/equivalent objects you REALLY need to follow after? Just press Run near it and watch Sonic take off. (Afterimages would be lovely, but...) |
This has to be in the game and how about the light speed attack?
I could never get that to work right, i would always just somersoault
Back on topic, some of these seem very resonable, like arthur being hevyer to resist wind, and marios triple jup.
Is wall jump broken for Samus? If it's been proven. Broken for Mario? Maybe, maybe not. We'll never know if we don't test, right? Also, I thought of it for Mario as sort of a reference to SM64DS, where Mario is the only character that can wall jump (although there are Mario caps strewn around a level so you can transform into him until you get hit).
I think I DID make Super Jump sound broken, but it works almost exactly like it did for SMB2. He goes shooting off into the wild blue yonder and has pseudo-Starman qualities for a little bit, but once his vertical velocity slows to the point of his normal jump velocity, he'd become vulnerable to anything above him again. And he would obviously stop dead if he hit something solid on the way up (with animation or not; it's up to the coders, after all). In other words, I tried to not use the fancy code speak for everyone and that's when it sounded broken.
And about the Light Dash only being useful to make unique paths for Sonic? ...What else are character-specific moves really for? We ARE trying to make them as unique as possible, right?
I think I DID make Super Jump sound broken, but it works almost exactly like it did for SMB2. He goes shooting off into the wild blue yonder and has pseudo-Starman qualities for a little bit, but once his vertical velocity slows to the point of his normal jump velocity, he'd become vulnerable to anything above him again. And he would obviously stop dead if he hit something solid on the way up (with animation or not; it's up to the coders, after all). In other words, I tried to not use the fancy code speak for everyone and that's when it sounded broken.
And about the Light Dash only being useful to make unique paths for Sonic? ...What else are character-specific moves really for? We ARE trying to make them as unique as possible, right?
BUMP, because in light of the new unblanding of the mario brothers, some of these upgrades might help.
I wouldn't believe if somebody would tell me that but I agree wit theused, just no, the characters have a balanced powerup and ability system, they don't need to be overpowered, the secret characters could be but only because they have different advantages in their games, this is unnecessary, cheap, and overpowered, therfore not welcome, of course that's just my 2 cents.
I think you are looking at Numbuh 214's list more than mine. I'll remove some stuff, like spinning Bros and Hurricane Ball, because those are already in. But I don't see Triple Jump as cheap. It's a move where you need to have tons of build up. You have to constantly go at full speed, and jump three times to maximum height. It would be insanely hard to pull off, and even then,it wouldn't go high enough to bypass vital puzzles. Honestly, I think N. 214's list is just filled with broken stuff. The only thing that isn't broken is him restating my suggestion for Arthur.
If there were upgrades, though... They'd have to be minor. Otherwise it'd be overpowered.
I think I posted something like this a while ago and the general consensus was that even if they were difficult to obtain as unlockables, they were still overpowered.
Level Up Items for the win!
| QUOTE (cyberkid @ Jan 2 2009, 11:12 AM) |
| Level Up Items for the win! |
You mean like an RPG styled lvl ups and exp., then No, thats impractical.
No, I mean like Sonic Adventure type level-up items.
| QUOTE (cyberkid @ Jan 4 2009, 06:45 PM) |
| No, I mean like Sonic Adventure type level-up items. |
Elaborate.
QUOTE (Shard @ Jan 4 2009, 06:59 PM)
| QUOTE (cyberkid @ Jan 4 2009, 06:45 PM) |
| No, I mean like Sonic Adventure type level-up items. |
Elaborate.
Hidden items that give a character a permanent power up or a new move.
I'm thinking that in order for upgrades to avoid being OP'd, they would have to fall under the following set of rules...
They would have to be buyable for a high price or a well-hidden secret.
They would have to make only minor alterations (no super-powerfull attacks).
They would have to help make levels easier/help open new paths.
For instance, something that would help Wario move a bit faster or jump a bit higher would be how upgrades should work. In addition, something that adds an extra hit point to a character's bar would also work.
They would have to be buyable for a high price or a well-hidden secret.
They would have to make only minor alterations (no super-powerfull attacks).
They would have to help make levels easier/help open new paths.
For instance, something that would help Wario move a bit faster or jump a bit higher would be how upgrades should work. In addition, something that adds an extra hit point to a character's bar would also work.
light dash for sonic speed thourgh a path of coins price 100000
I could see heart containers and life-ups for sale at some shops.
| QUOTE |
| Elaborate. |
Shard, If you never played Sonic Adventure long enought to get a Level-Up Item, that's just sad.
QUOTE (Shard @ Jan 4 2009, 06:59 PM)
| QUOTE (cyberkid @ Jan 4 2009, 06:45 PM) |
| No, I mean like Sonic Adventure type level-up items. |
Elaborate.
Basically, what Cyberkid meant is this.
Each character has some of their own unique levels that only they can play, and no one else. The story is perfectly fine, as they play their unique levels in the same spot of the story.
In some levels/unique levels, each character has several upgrades that appear in a circle. Here are some:
Sonic:
Magic Gloves
Light Shoes
Bounce Bracelet
Flame Ring
Ancient Light
These do several things, like:
Pick up Enemies
Allow you to dash through a line of rings quickly
Bounce up and down (Sonic's Ground Pound in MKF) - Bounce Bracelet
Covered in flames when Sonic somersaults
And such.
This stuff is only in SA2, though.
This is kind of pointless and creates too much work for the game. Unless if you feel like personally editing every level so these work out in them, these are going to be gimmicks. The only plausible "power-up" would be extra hit points on the hit point system. : |
QUOTE (cyberkid @ Jan 5 2009, 11:37 AM)
I could see heart containers and life-ups for sale at some shops.
| QUOTE |
| Elaborate. |
Shard, If you never played Sonic Adventure long enought to get a Level-Up Item, that's just sad.
Yes, way to be a douche and not actually explain what shard asked. :V
I can see certain blocks or pathways being usable though a certain upgrade, here's my two cents.
Mario/Luigi: special wall jump surfaces or super ice that only a charges fireball will melt.
Sonic/Tail: Light Dash seems the best for them to get to new areas.
Arthur/Samus: they are heavy, so wind pipes and such that only they can pass would work. Samus could also use blaster spots that she can only shot though {like the missles squares in metriod series}
Wario: not sure, a ramming surface that can only be broken with a upgrade?
Roll: blaster spaces maybe or something else
Link: special walls that only he can cut though maybe?
Kirby: suck out certain sections of wall or something maybe?
Mario/Luigi: special wall jump surfaces or super ice that only a charges fireball will melt.
Sonic/Tail: Light Dash seems the best for them to get to new areas.
Arthur/Samus: they are heavy, so wind pipes and such that only they can pass would work. Samus could also use blaster spots that she can only shot though {like the missles squares in metriod series}
Wario: not sure, a ramming surface that can only be broken with a upgrade?
Roll: blaster spaces maybe or something else
Link: special walls that only he can cut though maybe?
Kirby: suck out certain sections of wall or something maybe?
I'm not sure Light Speed Dash would work so well for Tails. It's always been Sonic and Shadow's move. Perhaps an upgrade to allow him to fly longer would be more useful.
As for Wario, lengthening his Dash Attack or reducing its stun time might be most practical.
I'd have to sit down and think more for the others.
As for Wario, lengthening his Dash Attack or reducing its stun time might be most practical.
I'd have to sit down and think more for the others.
I can see Sonic getting a Light Dash, Tails a longer flight, and maybe Link a slightly stronger sword. Maybe a lttle too overpowered but, Mario, one of those balloons from Super Mario World, it would let the "Capped Crusader" have a higher jump and slower decent, weaker than Bunny Luigi's glide, though.
QUOTE (Phoenix Wright @ Jan 5 2009, 03:20 PM)
| QUOTE (Shard @ Jan 4 2009, 06:59 PM) | ||
Elaborate. |
Basically, what Cyberkid meant is this.
Each character has some of their own unique levels that only they can play, and no one else. The story is perfectly fine, as they play their unique levels in the same spot of the story.
In some levels/unique levels, each character has several upgrades that appear in a circle. Here are some:
Sonic:
Magic Gloves
Light Shoes
Bounce Bracelet
Flame Ring
Ancient Light
These do several things, like:
Pick up Enemies
Allow you to dash through a line of rings quickly
Bounce up and down (Sonic's Ground Pound in MKF) - Bounce Bracelet
Covered in flames when Sonic somersaults
And such.
This stuff is only in SA2, though.
No, it was in SA1 first and was carried over to SA2.
Also, you didn't explain that very well...
Eh.
There's not much i can explain, Cyber. And by "this stuff is only in SA2", i mean the items, not the upgrades.
Besides, upgrades are upgrades. You find them and you get upgraded.
There's not much i can explain, Cyber. And by "this stuff is only in SA2", i mean the items, not the upgrades.
Besides, upgrades are upgrades. You find them and you get upgraded.
| QUOTE (Phoenix Wright @ Jan 7 2009, 12:21 PM) |
| Eh. There's not much i can explain, Cyber. And by "this stuff is only in SA2", i mean the items, not the upgrades. Besides, upgrades are upgrades. You find them and you get upgraded. |
But the items arent just in SA2! That was the whole reason I corrected you!
Ah well... The point's across, that's all that matters.